taxes, you know, we don't -- you know we don't agree with that. but fix the problem so if you're asking for somebody to give more of their money into washington, at least be able to tell them that we are going to manage down the debt. that's what we're about here. which is why the focus on spending and how we have to ratchet down the spending in this town. and that's where we've heard no specifics or willingness on the part of the president to engage in discussions about specifics on spending. as far as the math is concerned, again, it was a very different president in the summer of 2011 when he said $1.2 trillion in additional revenues could be accomplished without hiking tax rates. that's what he said. so, again, all of a sudden that math doesn't work but it worked for 1.2 before. regardless, we sort of understand now, at least this round, where everyone is on

taxes. let's get to the problem and maybe then we can resolve the taxes question. i yield back. mr. hoyer: well, we have a fundamental disagreement because the gentleman continues to want to focus on spending. i think that's right that we focus on spending. but, again, debt is not caused by spending. it is caused by buying things you don't pay for. or it's caused by cutting revenues that you don't offset, either by cuts in spending, by cutting revenues. that's what causes debt. it's not buying things that causes debt. it's not paying for things. and the discipline, i will tell my friend, in the system for the american public is if they want things, for us to say, ok, you want a tax cut or you want a strong defense, it costs money. both of them cost money. and if you're willing to pay for it, we will do that. if you're not willing to do that, we ought not to do it. that's not been or practice, unfortunately, and we dropped

the pay-go requirement, as the gentleman knows, in 2001 and actually in 2003 legally de facto we dropped it in 2001 because we had subtax cuts without paying for them. we -- we had substantial tax >> he says the house will be in session monday december 17 to deal with the fiscal cliff. the house returned to business this week on tuesday at 2:00 p.m. eastern. they will be appointing members to work with the senate on defense programs. live coverage when the house returns here and c-span. the synod -- the senate returns on monday.

they will also consider a nomination for assistant secretary of housing and development. live coverage when they return on c-span2. >> joining as and vermont is governor peter shumlin. thank you for being with us. >> it is great to be with you. thank you for being with us. let me begin with some news of the weekend. that is former republican gov. charlie crist is not a democrat. do you welcome him to the democratic party? is this setting the stage as a potential run as governor as a democrat nunn could 2014. >> he was hugely helpful in

electing president obama. it is a great victory for us. he is an incredibly capable victor. we do not take sides before we know that we have one single candidate. everyone knows he was a great governor. he led florida with precision. if he is a candidate, we would welcome him. >> is he interested in running? >> i am glad to let him speak for himself. one of my jobs is a chair is to work together to recruit the best candidates that we can. he is high on the list. we will be having conversations with him. >> had had any? >> we are not eliminating any other candidates. >> patty had any conversations leading up to him over the weekend?

-- have you had any conversations leading up to him over the weekend? >> florida is led by a tea party governor that is so focused on the white wing agenda he is the not succeed in -- right-wing agenda that he has not succeeded in jobs. they are focused on jobs and opportunities. that means raising incomes for those that have jobs. florida is a great example of a state that need to change in 2014. >> good morning. before you get into the 2014 midterm of elections, you have big governor's races in new jersey and virginia. after president obama's first victory, those two states where a pretty big embarrassment to the democratic party. how are you thinking of those

going into next year? chris christie has pretty high approval ratings. i do not know if you think that will turn of democrats who want ran against him. also, what do you think of the race in virginia? >> less talk about the record so the viewing audience knows. there were 11 contested races for governor across the nation. democratic governors won eight of the 11. there were lots of stories about how democrats were going to lose. we won them. we won races that the press did not expect us to win. we won new hampshire. won in montana. he is going to do great things in the great state of montana.

we won in washington state. he has been focused on economic development. we won there in a tight race. we come here with an association that is well organized and understand how to win even when we have less resources and our friends. having said that, none could 2014 -- in 2014 will be huge. in 2013 there too big races. we're very optimistic about virginia. we have an extraordinary candidates. he steadied his own business when he was 14 years old. he is the best example of a moderate centrist job

greater. he is running against a right- wing tea party candidate attorney general who literally said when asked do you align yourself with the two-party he said i am a tea party group ie. direct quote. he was rejected across the country in the last election. we're going to help terry with everything we've got. in new jersey, no question. gov. christie is popular. there a lot of strong candidates considering that run. we will work with all of them to come with the strongest candidate. >> thanks for taking the time. a lot of people have brought up cory booker's name.

can any democrat in new jersey in that is not named cory booker? >> i think so. i have spoken with other candidates that will be running in new jersey and i think it will be a very spirited race. new jersey has not experience the kind of economic revival we have seen in some of the states that are led by democratic governors. a year in politics is a long time. two weeks is a long time. we are running against a popular incumbent. that can change. if we have a strong candidate that concern the economy and moving more quickly we think that we can do a better job of leading new jersey with a number

of the candidates. >> let me ask you more broadly about the kind of voters you are going after. in a lot if he states it seemed that people vote differently thafor state office and federal. he mentioned montana. -- you mentioned montana. how is that voters make the distinction between a democrat or a republican running for governor and the same candidate for the senate or house. >> is a very different job. we have to pay the bills. we have to implement the policies that create jobs. the public will also send folks to washington to go shake it up. they want a governor who not only can balance the budget and understand how to run a huge enterprise but also can deliver on the really important things

that make a difference from job creation. we are the folks that run the education systems that allow us to have the workforce of 21st century jobs. that is what democratic governors get. the real obstacle to job growth is having the best education system, particularly in the s.t.e.m. sciences. we implement many of the environmental policies. where the rubber hits the road is that you have to get results. the reason we are winning races is that we have democratic governors who not only balance budgets and understand they have to be fiscally responsible but we combine that with an imaginative vision on insuring

that we get it right when it comes to technology, making sure we have a trained work force so that we can be the job creators and the folks that seem incomes rise -- see incomes rise. when we talk to candidates, we go for the job creators. >> when you look specifically to the 2014 elections, especially in the midwestern states where republicans have a pretty large victories in 2010, what is your overarching argument against those republican governors? they have led to charges that that anger the democratic base. will that be the basis of your message to unseating some of those governors? >> here is the state that

produces the automobiles for america that with out president obama and the bailout of the automobile industry probably would not be in business right now. you have the governor down there institutional right to work policies that are against the interest of 30% of every living person in michigan. this is a nutty stuff. they focus on ticking away women's rights, standing for the most extreme elements of the tea party that got rejected. huge opportunities for the democratic governors in those states to point out and make sure we have governors to are focused on creating jobs, not standing in the way of women's, a minority rights region of

women's rights, minority rights and minorityghts rights. >> but we speak about jerry brown. do you expect him to seek reelection? special in pennsylvania -- pennsylvania has a long tradition. >> i think both california and pennsylvania are great opportunities for us. governor brown is doing an extraordinary job. he is making tough fiscal decisions. i was impressed that he was able to win the referendum that gave voters the choice you either pay higher income taxes for the wealthy or you continue to cut school budget and opportunities to create a work force that is strange for 21st century jobs. he won that referendum. california voters voted for higher taxes on the wealthy.

he does intend to work again. i was honored that he nominated me last week to leave the chair of the democratic governors association. we expect him to win when he runs. in pennsylvania, another example of a tea party gov. hugh is not getting results. -- who is not getting results. there are lots of very excited democrat who are not admitting they are running get. we will have an active field of candidates to challenge an incumbent in pennsylvania who has not created jobs and is therefore not very popular. >> let me ask you about the administration appeared this week he said we have to focus on climate change as -- administration. this week you said we have to focus on climate change. as the obama administration done

enough of climate change? >> none of us have done enough. governors are no different than members of congress. we come from different regions of the country. my comment about climate change was more about what some of the governors are doing in the northeast and along the coast that do not necessarily half fossil fuel resources. >> we're having a little bit of a signal problem. we're going to have to fix that and come back to you in a couple of minutes. we apologize. let me go to your point about environmental issues and global warning. it was a huge issue in the campaign, something the president promised to do more in 2013 or 2014. >> we have not seen a lot of action. there are a couple of these issues on the liberal wish list that i feel like the obama administration has not quite in

gauge on. whether it is gun-control or immigration reform. there are these issues that the end of lustration has not quite in gauge on. -- that the administration has not quite engaged on. >> it was likely a very strategic decision why some of these issues were not addressed. they are issues that tend to give very heated and gives the republicans an opportunity to try to paint the democrats as very liberal which does not work always. he can work to the benefit of the other side. it does seem as though immigration will be the issue of next year once the fiscal cliff negotiations are over. we have heard from a number of

republicans who think immigration reform may be easier to achieve a. in 2006, we had some very heated debate on that topic. at this point after an election where republicans lost the latino voters by a very large number, they are saying they would like to see immigration reform passed in some way. they will push it differently. >> i think governor peter shumlin is back. we were talking about immigration and global warming. did you want to finish your thoughts? >> what is right for vermont or massachusetts may not be bright for virginia or some of the other oil-producing producing states. i believe strongly that climate change is the single biggest challenge we face and we cannot move fast enough to do energy

efficiency better. from the governor's perspective, it is a job creator. as we move to renewable and energy efficiency, which we have to do for climate change and because america cannot afford to continue to import oil that is $4, five bucks, which ever is going to do what we're doing in many of our states is growing wables. les -- grenoble' the result is that we are growing jobs from its. in vermont, we have more high- tech jobs per capita than any other state in the country. we are moving so quickly in those areas we now have the fastest growth rate in the north

east. we were the only state in the nation to see income growth in 2011. we cannot move fast enough to do energy efficiency better. it is also a huge jobs creator. if we get it right we will find that climate change is an economic opportunity that the industrial revolution or the technology boom were. >> you rattled off a number of states. what is it like being a new chairman? have you gone through a boot camp and now you know everything about these races right off the bat? >> no, to be honest with you. i have a lot to learn from

governors around the country. i have to tell you why i'm so excited. as you look around the country of the politics of today, since we did not get much change in washington, the senate is in great hands but the house is still controlled by mostly tea party congressional folks. this is a time when governors need to lead. what the public wants is not so much democrats or republicans, they want results. they want to see they have leaders to make the tough choices to grow jobs. rubber is going to hit the road with the governors because of the paralysis. they do not to anything but protect the right wing interests. it is a real opportunity for us. we need to elect a democratic governors who will make a difference in jobs and jobs

growth by controlling health care costs so that we are spending less money on health care and can invest in innovation and creativity. making sure that we have a trained work force. when i talk to drop leaders in vermont, our employers are telling a different story than they were two years ago. it was the worst recession in american history. we're thinking about doing a layoff. now they're saying we need more employees who were trained in the s.t.e.m. areas of education to get the work force work that we are going to get done. it is a better problem to have a. democratic governors can help develop the system that will retrain our existing work force and get more first generation kids beyond high school so we have a really bright economic future.

>> once a we have not mentioned is arizona. and there will -- up one state we have not mentioned is arizona. there will be an open race because she cannot run for reelection. is one of the obama at mr. engine has talked about here it -- administration has talked about. i am wondering what you see go forward into the arizona governor's race and if you're getting pressure from the democratic party to finally make this a competitive state again. >> i have not been on the job long enough to be candid enough with you to say we have worked deeply with arizona. arizona is changing. there is no reason why we cannot win the governorship. i suspect there are many who

feel their current leadership is not balanced. they wish they had a different governor. there is a huge opportunity for us to say we think we can elect a democratic governor who created jobs and economic opportunities and be more balanced and stable. >> i want to ask you about taxes. rick perry is seeking reelection. he has been in office since 2001. it has been more than 20 years since texas elected a democrat, and richards, and she only served one term. -- ann richard and she only served one term. >> texas is a tough state for us. >> will it change in 2014? >> it is hard to know. when we had 34 opportunities, we

try to win each and every one of them. the way you do that is by recruiting strong candidates. you will see is focusing really hard on trying to recruit as many strong candidates as we can. we are not writing off the great state of texas. >> let me talk about one other state, and the state of arkansas. he is finishing up the second term. i would argue that no state has changed more in the past four years in arkansas. how you propose to keep a democrat holding that governorship? >> we would love to get arkansas in 2014. we have a long tradition in arkansas. one of the great presidents, bill clinton. we work very hard down there. tooannot get t

specific of our prospects. >> some governors have been lobbying the white house on what they would like to see happen in some of the fiscal cliff negotiations and some of the cuts that republicans want to make in these negotiations could impact the state budget. what do you see as your bottom line and what the cut cannot do? >> let's be clear about this. the president has got this one right. we cannot balance this budget and make the changes we need to make in terms of the fiscal cliff without insuring that we ask the top 1% or 2% to pay their fair share in taxes. they're paying lower income taxes than in almost any time in our history since we implemented income tax. they have had a great deal.

president obama said that up for them. -- president bush set that up for them. we ask the wealthy to pay for their fair share. what we had was economic prosperity. when you see the gains they're playing in congress right now, to suggest he could do this with deductions is not true. the math does not add up. the president has to stick to his guns in insuring that it is time for the wealthiest americans to help bail out from this mess. we have to make cuts. they have to be prudent. the president and vice-president do not believe the way to balance the budget is on the backs of the states. if they reduce the commitment to health care, medicare, medicaid

and say we will reduce the reimbursement and shift the burden back to the states, the president knows that is not doing anything to achieve his goal of universal health care at a time when we are implementing the affordable care act. what you will see is a very balanced approach. i know the presence will not balance this budget on the backs of the most vulnerable americans. i think we have been too doom and gloom. it is going to be hard. as you lookmember around the globe, europe is in a terrible recession. they have huge debt problems. you have bigger problems in asia than you thought we would have a. ande can get this one right actually make a real road to

bring in new revenue and reduce our costs so that we bring our budget into balance, i think it is a huge opportunity for economic revival in america that around the globe will make us proud and create jobs. it is tough. if the president gets its right, we have a huge ability to see an economic revival we have all been waiting for. >> let me follow up on a ci. specific point. you said earlier that indicating it should be up to states to tailor programs when it comes to implementing certain aspects of obamacare. should states have this flexibility? flexibility? >>